Christian Research Service
Bud Press,
Director
July 2, 2004
To the Reader: The following is a
transcript of a video-tape from Benny Hinn's April
26, 2004 This Is Your Day telecast,
featuring Canon Andrew White, Special Middle
East Envoy for the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Important Note:
Because of the subject matter of
this discussion between Benny Hinn and Canon
Andrew White, it would be very easy to read
something into it that may not be there.
Sensationalism abounds, therefore, please
use discernment and common sense while discussing
or sharing this information.
Researched & Compiled by:
Bud Press, Director
June 15, 2004
Video-tape on file
-----------------------------------------------------
[Introduction, April 26,
2004] "The following program is made possible by
generous gifts from partners of Benny Hinn
Ministries and viewers like you in this area."
"The multi-faceted ministry
of Benny Hinn is reaching the world with the
saving, healing and life-changing gospel of Jesus
Christ. Through massive crusades, daily
television, feeding programs, children's' homes,
church-wide projects and much, much more. Stay
tuned for the next thirty minutes because this is
your day to experience God's miracle-working power
in your life."
Benny Hinn:
"I want to introduce you today to a very wonderful
person named Andrew White, who's serving Jesus and
loves the Lord with all his heart. He's the
Special Envoy to the Archbishop of Canterbury. He
is working today in Iraq; most amazing life,
truly. And what God is doing through him, in the
Middle East, is remarkable. He is my dear friend
and I am so glad you are here with me today,
Andrew."
Andrew White:
"Great. Thank you, Pastor Benny."
Hinn: "Now,
they call you 'Canon' Andrew White. I think maybe
our people would like to know what a Canon is
finally."
White:
"There are loose cannons and there are big shots
[laughter], and a Canon in the Anglican Church is
somebody who has his basis, uh, a cathedral, is
one of the"
Hinn:
[interrupts] "Now let me ask you, what do you,
what are, what are you doing right now in Iraq?
Our listeners would love to know what you're doing
right now."
White:
"Well, In Iraq, I act as a liaison between the
Coalition Provisional Authority and the Iraqi
religious leaders. The Ayatollahs', the Sunni
Sheikhs', the Christian leaders, the Turkmen, the
Yazidis', the Sapis', all of the other small
groups, and I'm the Senior Advisor to the Iraqi
Center for Reconciliation and Peace" ["Iraqi
Centre for Dialogue, Reconciliation and Peace"]
Hinn: "And
you're holding services Sunday morning?"
White: "Uh,
Sunday morning I chair in the chaplaincy at
Saddam's old palace, and, and I preach most Sunday
mornings in the palace in Baghdad for the troops
and for the diplomats. And in the afternoon I go
over to our little Anglican church, which has
reopened since the war, now has several hundred
members and over a hundred children, and is the
most exciting thing I'm involved with today."
Hinn: "Now I
want all our precious people to know, He [Canon
Andrew White] is charismatic; full of the Holy
Spirit [laughs]. It's so wonderful. God has put
you right in that"
White:
[interrupts] "And they want you in Iraq!"
Hinn: "Tell
me about that."
White:
"Well, I was, uh, I was talking to , uh, a Pastor
Maher [Pastor Maher Abdul Mageed] about,
uh, coming over to see you, and he said, 'Well, we
all watch Pastor Benny on satellite television,
because satellite television was banned under
Saddam."
Hinn: "Yes."
White: "And
suddenly now everybody has satellite television.
They all watch you, and they all want you to come
to Baghdad."
Hinn: "Will
you take me there?"
White: "I
will take you there, and they told me there'll be
thousands of people coming."
Hinn: "Well
is it safe to go right now?"
White: "Of
course not!"
Hinn:
[laughs, claps hands, hits arms of his chair with
his hands] "Okay, so when do we go?"
White: "But,
but, Jesus didn't tell us to be safe!"
Hinn:
[laughs] "That's right! Amen!"
White: "He
tells us to take risks for the sake of the gospel!
And if we only did what was safe we wouldn't do
anything."
Hinn: "Don't
you love him, saints? I, you know what? When I met
him in Dubai, I just, you know, it was like you
and I had known each other for years."
White:
"Well, that was amazing, because you said to me,
'Look, you must, we must meet up sooner.' I said,
'What chance is there of us meeting? I'm zooming
around the world in one direction or in the
other.' You spoke to me on a Saturday. You said to
me, 'Where are you this week?' I said,
'Wednesday-Dubai; Thursday-Iman; Friday-Baghdad.'"
Hinn: "Now
this all started in a, with a most amazing letter
I got from this man [Andrew White]. You send me a
letter inviting me to be a part of the Alexandria
Process. Now, our people would love to know what
that is, first. But, what you said to me about
that dear man. Uh, what's his name again?"
White: "Yasser
Arafat."
Hinn:
[laughs] "Besides Yasser Arafat."
White:
"Sheikh Tamimi" [Sheikh Taisir Tamimi].
Hinn:
"Sheikh Tamimi. Now, who is Sheikh Tamimi?"
White:
"Well, Sheikh Tamimi is the Alexandria
processes--the religious Track of the Middle East
peace processes--which really came about when the
Israeli government came to me soon after the
establishment. Uh, the second, in spite, said,
'Look, one of the reasons why the Mid-East Process
has failed is it's too secular.' And the Sheikh
Tamimi is the leader, the Supreme, the super-judge
of the Sharia Court, the Islamic courts of
Palestine. And I was with him one day and he was
complaining that I hadn't mentioned him on the God
Channel [
http://www.godnetwork.com ]. So I said, 'What
you doing watching the God Channel?' He said that,
'We watch it everyday to watch Benny Hinn.' I
said, 'You, the Supreme Islamic Judge, the top
Islamic Cleric of Palestine, watch Benny Hinn?'
'Yeah. Everyday.' And, uh, then he starts telling
me what the program was like. He said, 'Benny Hinn
stretches his hands out. He prays for people and
they fall down. Have you ever seen that?' they say
to me."
Hinn: "You
know, I, I'm just sitting here, even though I've
heard this before, I'm still amazed. And, really I
am."
White: "I'll
take you to him next week."
Hinn: "Well,
we are going to Israel. I think by the time you
[viewing audience] are watching these programs
we'll be there."
White: "You
will see it."
Hinn: "Now
let me ask you something. Uh, the Alexandria
Process. It's a group of religious leaders."
White: "It's
religious leaders working with the political
leaders. So, we're working with every aspect of
the Quartet. The Quartet is the international body
responsible for the peace process. That's the
Americans, United Nations. European Union and,
um." [pauses and looks directly at Hinn]
Hinn: "And?"
White: "The
Russians."
Hinn: "And
now they want me on that, like you told me?"
White: "The
people who want your involvement are the religious
leaders, themselves, from Israel and Palestine."
Hinn: "Tell
our partners what that dear man"
White:
[interrupts] "The other old, the old man in
Ramallah?"
Hinn: "No.
No. The man you just mentioned."
White: "Tamimi?"
Hinn: "Yeah.
What did he say to you?"
White:
"Well, Tamimi said, 'We need Pastor Benny Hinn.'
And I was sitting down with him one day around
Yasser Arafat's table, and he said to President
Arafat, he said, 'Raed, we need Benny Hinn.' He [Tamimi]
said to me, 'Arafat raised his eyebrows and said,
'He's one of our boys.'"
Hinn:
[laughs] "So now, what did, what did that man say?
Why do they want me on there?"
White: "The
reason they want you is because they realize that
you probably influence more Christians across the
globe than anybody else. And, uh, they know that
in order to bring about change, we've got to have
the representatives of the biggest churches."
Hinn: "Now,
let me ask you something else. Do you believe
there will be peace in the Middle East?"
White: "I'm
not sure."
Hinn: "So
why are you there?"
White: "I'm
there because God tells us to pray for the peace
of Jerusalem. And if He tells us to pray for the
peace of Jerusalem, surely He means we must work
for it. He doesn't tell us to pray for anything
which we're not supposed to work towards."
Hinn: "So,
what am I supposed to do if I go with you?"
White:
"Though, if you come with us, what we really want
is we want your people and your followers to
pray."
Hinn:
"You've got that already."
White: "And
just pray vaguely for the peace of Jerusalem is
not specifically intervening. We need people to
pray; to seriously pray for the peace of
Jerusalem. We need people like you to be able to
be a liaison between the people there and the
people here. You see, I mentioned this 'Quartet.'
In reality, three parts of it are irrelevant. The
only thing that really matters is what America
thinks, and how we relate to the U.S.
administration. So these are all the various areas
that you--we would like you to help us with."
Hinn: "Well,
precious people of God, please pray for me as I go
with Andrew, uh, and, that God will speak to me
clearly, because I do believe with all of my heart
that God almighty will answer the prayer of His
people; because the Scripture says God answers
prayer."
White:
"Absolutely!"
Hinn: "Now,
we as believers need to be a blessing to the
people of that part of the world."
White:
"Exactly. And I think for so long the church has
taken one side or the other, and has actually been
a cause of division. And I think the church needs
to repent about that. It's what it needs, to
repent, about how it has treated the people of
Israel. It needs to repent about how it has
perceived the Palestinian people. And it needs to
repent of how it's been a cause of division.
Sadly, the church has not been a unified force
within Israel and Palestine. And we need to pray
that it will be transformed so that it can
actually bring healing and wholeness. And, you,
you mentioned, Pastor Benny, that we need to
really pray that God will answer this prayer, and
He will. And we have seen the most amazing answers
to prayer, particularly in Iraq, in the last few
weeks--how God has intervened in ways that we
could never have imagined."
Hinn: "Now,
four of your people were killed recently."
White: "Four
of the people we worked with very closely were
killed recently, all of them Christians. We have
another close colleague, who is actually, uh, from
Jerusalem, who is a hostage at the moment. And so,
uh, most of my day, uh, at the moment is taken up
trying to negotiate his release."
Hinn: "So,
what is God doing now in Iraq?"
White:
"Well, I can remember standing on the balcony of
the Palestine Hotel one day, and looking out and
over the river Tigris, seeing what was almost like
a cloud of glory. And I can remember saying to
myself, saying to God, But, God, why should
your glory be here? This is such an evil place.
And I felt God saying to me very clearly, Read
the book of Ezekiel! So I sat down and I read
the whole book of Ezekiel. It's quite long. I
didn't realize how long it was. I've never read it
all in one go before. And there, suddenly, was
revealed this amazing history of how God's glory
came upon Ezekiel amongst the exiles in Babylon.
And, uh, there is an incredible sense of the
presence of God's glory. And one day, uh, just a
few days ago, I decided to go to Ezekiel's Tomb
["The traditional burial-place of the prophet
Ezekiel,"
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com ]. He's
buried in a place called El Kefil which, in Iraq,
the Arabic means 'Ezekiel'; in Hebrew-'Yechezkiel.'
And I went, I drove the three hundred kilometers
[about 186 miles] to this little town. Along the
way we kept stopping and asking people where to
go. And people didn't just say, 'Take that road on
the right.' They said, 'That's a very holy place.
You'll have to take your shoes off. You remember
Musa--the prophet Moses when he was at the burning
bush--he had to take his shoes off.' And we got to
the place of Ezekiel's Tomb, and there we found
Shiite Muslims' looking after a Jewish Synagogue
with Ezekiel's tomb in it. And there was an
incredible sense of the presence of God there. And
in the courtyard surrounding the tomb were little
alcoves, booths, in the rock, And that was where
the people would come and watch and pray all-night
around this tomb. And Ezekiel was one of the
original watchmen [see Ezekiel chapter 33]. And I
believe that we're all called to be watchmen in
this time. On the way back I stopped off at
Babylon, and I went into Saddam Hussein's lewed
palace. I'd been there many times before and it
had been such an evil place. But this time I heard
God saying, clearly, over-and-over again, 'Babylon
is fallen! Babylon is fallen!' And we know that
when Babylon is fallen, God's glory can be
revealed in all its form. And so we drove out of
Babylon; our car broke down. And suddenly, I
started thinking, Our car is broken down.
We're a long way from Baghdad. What are we going
to do? And then, uh, there was a whole trail
of gas tankers behind us--twenty or thirty. In
front of us a bombing goes off in the road! And
you kind of feeling this is a bad day. And
suddenly, it dawned on us. God had just saved our
lives, and we hadn't seen it. And God had not just
saved our lives, but He had saved the lives of
probably hundreds of people. Because we'd broken
down, those oil tankers were not blown up. The
bomb was meant for them, not for us. And that's
just one of many examples of how we see God's
angels protecting and working. So, we've seen a
return of God's glory. Amongst and amidst the
chaos of Iraq, at this moment, Palm Sunday--just a
couple of weeks ago--was an incredible experience
as the people were marching round-and-round the
church waving their palms [palm fronds] and
singing, 'Hosanna.' And I said to them in the
sermon, 'Well, what does Hosanna mean?' They said,
'God save us.' And I said, 'Let's talk about what
does God need to save us from.' And they said,
'God needs to save us now from terrorists; from
the religious fundamentalists; from Islam.'"
Hinn:
[interrupts] "Help us to understand some of that
that's going on that we see in the news now."
White: "Well
I think that what we're seeing at the moment is a
very dangerous alliance between some of the Sunni
radicals and some of the Shia radicals. It's not
the majority position. Most Iraqis are actually
very peaceful; very loving people who are very
supportive of the coalition. But as the situation
becomes increasingly more desperate
economically--from the point of fewer people
having no jobs--people are being pulled to the
more radical movement. And that's why we're seeing
such"
Hinn:
[interrupts] "So what do you see coming?"
White: "I,
I think the answer there also has to be a real
engagement with the religious leaders. Um, we, I
can remember saying to both the American and the
British governments, before the war, 'We've got to
workout what we're going to really do about the
religious leaders.' And they said, 'We've got to
sort-out water and electricity. We can't worry
about religion.' Few weeks later they came back
saying to us, 'We cannot even sort-out water and
electricity until we sorted-out the religious
issues.'"
Hinn:
"Andrew, if I go to Baghdad, what can happen?"
White: "If
you go to Baghdad, many, many people will come to
know Jesus, and many people will be healed."
Hinn: "Where
wi, wi, wi, will we hold the meetings?"
White:
"There are various places. Obviously we need to
find, uh, a large enough venue."
Hinn: "Is
there one?"
White:
"There is one. Yes. the convention center."
Hinn: "And
how about support from the government and from
the"
White:
[interrupts] "What government? We don't really
have a government."
Hinn: "There
must be some kind of a"
White:
[interrupts] "It's, it's very, we are at a
difficult point at the moment because we have the
coalition really running Iraq. But from the 30th
of June we have to hand-over sovereignty, and then
it will be easier."
Hinn:
"Right."
White: "And
then we will have a government. And already we're
working very closely with"
Hinn:
[interrupts] And can you help me with that?"
White:
"Absolutely. No problem."
Hinn: "You
know all of them?"
White: "Know
all of them? I knew
all of the bad guys before; I know the good guys
as well. When the pack of cards came out ["Iraqi
'Most Wanted' Playing Cards"], I looked through to
see how many of them I knew. Twenty-two I knew of
them well. Eight of them I've had dinner with in
the last year."
Hinn: "It's
amazing how the Lord has placed this man, ladies
and gentlemen, in such a position in Iraq and
Jerusalem, where they all love him and trust him.
And here he is, a man of God, filled with the Holy
Spirit. That's really what amazes me, how God has
placed you right in the center of that whole
situation there to use you."
White: "And
I think sometimes, um, I'm amazed by it as well;
how God has opened these doors, and God has placed
us right in the heart of"
Hinn:
[interrupts] "What did they tell you? What did
they ask you about the Lord, I mean?"
White: "The
people in Iraq?"
Hinn: "Yes,
and those you work with."
White:
"Well, uh, they, the thing which really opened
their eyes is when we see answers to prayer, and
we expect it. Everyday we expect one miracle. I
pray with my team that we'll have a miracle each
day. One day the, some of the Ayatollahs and the
Islamic leaders came to us and said, 'It's Id, do
you got any meat for us?' [the two Islamic
festivals are called "Id" or ?Id-al-Fitr, and ?Id
al-Adha].
Hinn: "They
called you a Ayatollah?" [an Ayatollah is a
high-ranking Shiite religious
authority]
White: "Eh,
they, I went to the Ayatol, they call me 'Abun,'
which means 'father.' Nobody else calls me that
apart from them in Middle east. 'Abun-Abun, can
you bring us some meat for Id?' for the Islamic
festival. I said, 'We don't really have any money.
We'd love to bring you some meat. That night I
decided we'd pray, quickly, that if God wants us
to provide some meat we'll get some meat. The next
morning at breakfast somebody walks in--a big
American guy, bigger than me--and says,
'Hey father, you're helping the Iraqi people?' I
said, 'We're trying to.' He said, 'You want some
meat?' I said, 'What do you mean, do you want some
meat?' He goes, 'Some meat!' He's quite
aggressive! So I said, 'How much meat have you
got?' He says, 'forty-three [43] trailer
loads--thousands and thousands of tons of meat!' I
said, 'Is it Hallal?' [He said] 'Yes! All Halal.'"
Hinn: "Halal
means?'
White: "Halal
means acceptable for Muslims [also, Lawful]. So,
suddenly we found ourselves with forty-three [43]
trailer loads; thousands and thousands of tons of
meat."
Hinn: "And
how they honor you. I saw that in Dubai with this
precious man. Here you were walking around by
yourself; a big collar; a big cross like he's
wearing now. And you walk into this hotel. You
were walking around by yourself. My brother,
Henry, and I had to shake our heads and say, 'This
man is bold.' I mean, to walk in a Muslim country
wearing this big cross on him, and a collar, you
know."
White: "I
think, um, in most the places where we work we
have very good relationships, and people trust us,
because they see God in us. And, uh, there's far
more in common, they would say, with us as
Christian leaders, than with people who are not of
faith."
Hinn:
"Remarkable. The Special Envoy to the Archbishop
of Canterbury sitting with me right here, Canon
Andrew White, filled with the Holy Spirit; used
of God in Iraq and Middle East and alot of other
places; very respected by our own government and
the Bristsh government, and other groups and
governments. I'm gonna ask you precious saints
around the world to pray for him. Amazing what God
is doing, really. I'm just sitting here. A little,
it's just really hard to speak at times when your
thinking about what God has done through you. And,
uh, pray that God will keep him safe and keep
using him. And there's one thing I'd like you to
pray for. This precious man is, is in need of a
healing in his body. I do understand you're in
constant pain, or alot of pain at times?"
White:
"Well, I suffer from Multiple Sclerosis [MS]. So,
life isn't always easy."
Hinn: "You
travel the world like this?"
White:
"Constantly."
Hinn: "How
much pain do you experience at times?"
White:
"Well, it's really quite considerable, and I have
very serious problems with my balance. But, um,
I'm always am able to do what God wants me to do."
Hinn: "It's
amazing. Would you join me now to pray for him?
Let's ask the Lord first, to touch his body. We
believe in healing. Everyday I talk about healing
almost on this program. Would you all just stretch
your hands towards this man? Would the cameraman
just put the camera on him for a moment? Let me
have your hand [Hinn takes White's hand in his].
Father, in the name of Jesus, we, your people,
pray for your servant, Andrew White, right now;
that you'll touch him physically and quicken his
body. Keep him safe and protect him as he travels
the world glorifying your name. Protect his
family. Protect his sweet wife in England. Keep
him safe. Lord, I pray that you will accomplish
your will through him, for Iraq and for your
people in the Holy Land. In Jesus' name, Amen and
Amen."
White:
"Amen!"
Hinn:
"Andrew, I'm gonna be praying for you continually
from now on. And I'm asking you [viewing audience]
to pray for him. I'm hearing some new things
today. In fact, when we met in Dubai, you had said
some of the things you said on the program today.
Pray for us, as we will be in Jerusalem together.
In fact, when these programs are on the air we'll
be there. And, uh, there's something else. We'll
see what God will do. It's an exciting day today.
Exciting for sure."
White: "Very
exciting time."
Hinn: "And
precious saints, trust God to meet your needs.
Nothing is impossible with Him; nothing
whatsoever. He's able to exceeding abundantly
above all we ask; above all we believe for. So
trust Him. Andrew White's address is on the [TV]
screen."
Andrew White
The Int'l Centre for
Reconciliation
Coventry Cathedral
Coventry, England CV1 5AB
Hinn
(cont.): "I want you to help him. There's alot of
cost involved in what he's doing. In ministering
the gospel in Iraq, he's holding services Sunday
morning in the palace. Now is that every Sunday or
is that many Sundays?"
White:
"Well, when I'm not there the military chaplains
are there. So, every Sunday there are services in
the palace. We even had a Passover in the palace
recently."
Hinn: "Well,
I promise you this: I am coming to Iraq."
White:
"Great!"
Hinn: "In
God's right moment, and I'm gonna come with you."
And I know we'll have a great campaign there; a
mighty time in the Lord."
White:
"Yeah."
Hinn: "Pray
for us, will you? What a day we're living in. It's
almost beyond belief, really, us just sitting
around, just numb. What a God; what a mighty God
we serve."
[Benny Hinn closes the
program by reading a list of his upcoming
crusades, including "Birmingham, England on July
16-17," then says to Andrew White:]
Hinn: "And I
hope you'll be there. Maybe you can make
arrangements to be with me."
White: "It's
just down the road from me."
Hinn: "'Just
down the road?'"
White: "I'll
come back from Baghdad."
Hinn: "I
love that!" [Hinn continues reading his crusade
schedule, then promotes two "Bible" magazines (Refuel
for boys and Revolve for girls), for $25
each. The program ends with Hinn mentioning his
tour to Israel on November 8-17, 2004]
# # #